El's Professions - WoW Guides » Topic: Milling Data

El's Professions - WoW Guides » Topic: Milling Data http://www.elsprofessions.com/forums/topic/milling-data Discussion about professions in World of Warcraft. en-US Sat, 21 Nov 2009 00:39:45 +0000 http://bbpress.org/?v=1.0.2 <![CDATA[Search]]> q http://www.elsprofessions.com/forums/search.php el on "Milling Data" http://www.elsprofessions.com/forums/topic/milling-data/page/2#post-295 Wed, 18 Feb 2009 00:38:20 +0000 el 295@http://www.elsprofessions.com/forums/ <a href="http://elitistjerks.com/f15/t29288-wotlk_profession_thread/p68/#post1104785">Cross-reference to Elitist Jerks prospecting discussion</a>. Rather interesting theory (cascading loot table), and relevant because we suspect Milling and Prospecting use the same mechanic. (They appear to share the same rare bug - one that can result in a stack of materials failing to break-down without explanation, until the stack is rearranged with at least one item from the stack discarded... Which might suggest that the randomness of the outcome is "seeded" into each individual item within the stack, not simply randomized at the time the stack is actually broken down.) I'm planning to re-analyse the original data to see if the patterns above match - but I may get distracted by patch 3.1... riveth on "Milling Data" http://www.elsprofessions.com/forums/topic/milling-data/page/2#post-294 Mon, 16 Feb 2009 02:31:29 +0000 riveth 294@http://www.elsprofessions.com/forums/ <cite>el <a href="http://www.elsprofessions.com/forums/topic/milling-data/page/2#post-293" title="View original post.">wrote</a>:</cite> <blockquote>[Wowhead's] data is unfortunately optimized for dungeon loot. So, for primary pigments, they record a 100% chance of "2-4"... We can't read that as an average of 3. Indeed, all the personal observations suggest 2 is the most common result from primary millings. Likewise, the 50% chance of "1-3" for secondary pigments, is strongly biased towards "1" - so the average amount gained for a "50% herb" is around 0.6 pigment per milling. </blockquote> Agreed. The Wowhead data alone does not provide enough information to determine milling probabilities. The Enchantrix team has brought this up to Wowhead (<a href="http://www.wowhead.com/?forums&topic=60825&p=803792)" rel="nofollow">http://www.wowhead.com/?forums&topic=60825&p=803792)</a>. Interestingly, the prospect data is normalized to not show a range, but the total result. I'm pretty sure milling uses a two roll system: first pass to decide if you get the secondary pigment, second pass to determine how many of each pigment you get. I would love to get copes of the Enchantrix.lua saved variables from some inscribers. Enchantrix saves data on every disenchant/prospect/mill you do, so combining the result quantities with the Wowhead probabilities should give the probability of getting >2 primary or >1 secondary. el on "Milling Data" http://www.elsprofessions.com/forums/topic/milling-data/page/2#post-293 Sun, 15 Feb 2009 22:14:33 +0000 el 293@http://www.elsprofessions.com/forums/ Interesting. Thanks for posting. I think we <a href="http://www.elsprofessions.com/inscription/milling_pigments.html">knew</a> item-level was important, but originally couldn't work out the precise relationship. Now that Wowhead lists thousands of millings, the 25% vs 50% split can be very clearly seen. Their data is unfortunately optimized for dungeon loot. So, for primary pigments, they record a 100% chance of "2-4"... We can't read that as an average of 3. Indeed, all the personal observations suggest 2 is the most common result from primary millings. Likewise, the 50% chance of "1-3" for secondary pigments, is strongly biased towards "1" - so the average amount gained for a "50% herb" is around 0.6 pigment per milling. riveth on "Milling Data" http://www.elsprofessions.com/forums/topic/milling-data/page/2#post-292 Sun, 15 Feb 2009 13:52:39 +0000 riveth 292@http://www.elsprofessions.com/forums/ Looking at Wowhead a few months later, there is clearly a pattern emerging: Uncommon pigments either are milling 25% or 50% of the time from a given herb. After the game decides whether to give an uncommon pigment, then it decides how many to give. Milling is is pretty clearly breaking down along item level lines, not just milling required lines. Verdant Pigment: iLvl 10-15: 25% of millings iLvl 20: 50% Burnt Pigment: iLvl 22: 25% iLvl 24-30: 50% Indigo Pigment: iLvl 32-34: 25% iLvl 37-39: 50% Ruby Pigment: iLvl 41-46: 25% iLvl 47-50: 50% Sapphire Pigment: iLvl 51-54: 25% iLvl 56-58: 50% Ebon Pigment: iLvl 60-65: 25% iLvl 66-70: 50% Icy Pigment: iLvl 72: 25% iLvl: 75: Not enough data ILvl 77-80: 50% Unfortunately Wowhead does not break down the probabilities of getting 1, 2, 3, or 4 of an item. nebalee on "Milling Data" http://www.elsprofessions.com/forums/topic/milling-data/page/2#post-239 Thu, 20 Nov 2008 03:20:47 +0000 nebalee 239@http://www.elsprofessions.com/forums/ Some data mainly with Northrend herbs: live v3.0.3 (build 9183) EU-Lothar Format: "herb name",2common,3common,4common,1uncommon,2uncommon,3uncommon "Silverleaf",4,2,0,0,0,0 "Peacebloom",2,2,0,0,0,0 "Earthroot",0,1,3,0,0,0 "Mana Thistle",1,0,0,1,0,0 "Ancient Lichen",4,0,0,2,0,0 "Goldclover",6,10,0,3,0,0 "Tiger Lily",22,27,0,9,0,0 "Deadnettle",11,14,0,7,0,0 "Adder's Tongue",9,13,13,16,0,0 "Icethorn",35,28,28,51,1,0 "Lichbloom",29,38,25,43,2,0 ishkate on "Milling Data" http://www.elsprofessions.com/forums/topic/milling-data/page/2#post-232 Sun, 02 Nov 2008 18:52:42 +0000 ishkate 232@http://www.elsprofessions.com/forums/ Posting some early-phase milling data before I lose the sheet it's written on: 55 Peacebloom : 27 alabaster 75 Silverleaf : 38 alabaster 70 Earthroot : 44 alabaster 35 Briarthorn : 15 dusky 135 Stranglekelp : 70 dusky + 10 verdant 25 Bruiseweed : 16 dusky + 4 verdant 35 Mageroyal : 18 dusky + 4 verdant 105 Kingsblood : 58 golden + 10 burnt 25 Liferoot : 12 golden + 4 burnt 20 Goldthorn : 9 emerald (ed : data from live servers - wasn't in the beta) el on "Milling Data" http://www.elsprofessions.com/forums/topic/milling-data/page/2#post-221 Sun, 26 Oct 2008 18:30:27 +0000 el 221@http://www.elsprofessions.com/forums/ Many thanks to everyone who posted or sent data! I've updated <a href="http://www.elsprofessions.com/inscription/milling_pigments.html">the results here</a>. It's still not completely conclusive, but there seems to be some relationship between the number of pigments and the level of the herb. Kuradora on "Milling Data" http://www.elsprofessions.com/forums/topic/milling-data/page/2#post-208 Wed, 22 Oct 2008 18:17:05 +0000 Kuradora 208@http://www.elsprofessions.com/forums/ I just got back into town, having been away since patch went live, so I don't have any working mods for data gathering in place just yet. I went from 1-365 in a few hours, and everything is gray to me atm. I did want to point out an observation I made over the course of my hundreds of millings: It seems that in each group, there is at least 1 type of herb that will get you more of the secondary pigment than all the others for that grouping. I noticed in some cases the secondary pigment was given as 3 or 4 even, rather than just 1 or 2. I don't know if it's a fluke of good fortune or if the same applies everywhere, but I do know I saw quite a few sets of 3 and 4 in the last 2 groupings below 300. Also, I noticed that among outlands herbs, Lichen and Nightmare Vine had a tendency to grant a single secondary at a time, but they were more frequent than in say, felweed. Hope this helps! Edit: I forgot to note which herbs exactly the 3-4 secondaries came from, but I do recall that either silversage or dreamfoil, and possibly gromsblood, had this effect. I remember only because I was concerned about blowing herbs that already had higher costs on my server pre-patch(and months beforehand). Turned out they did well ^.^ Tsark on "Milling Data" http://www.elsprofessions.com/forums/topic/milling-data/page/2#post-201 Tue, 21 Oct 2008 14:37:02 +0000 Tsark 201@http://www.elsprofessions.com/forums/ Another Crafter's Tome reader, and another set of data. I see now that I could have done a much better job of recording frequency of 2s and 3s - I just recorded overall data. Another caveat is that I did several rounds of milling, and for some of these rounds I totally forgot to record data at all (yeah I know, total ADD case....), which explains some of the missing herbs. So, anyway, data from live - format is number of herbs (not stacks, because sometimes I did half stacks, etc), common pigment, uncommon pigment: Peacebloom: 80 38 0 Silverleaf: 40 21 0 Mageroyal: 80 32 4 Bruiseweed: 15 9 4 Bruiseweed (part 2): 80 49 6 Swiftthistle: 10 6 0 Swiftthistle (part 2): 20 9 2 Wild Steelbloom: 20 10 3 Kingsblood: 30 17 3 Liferoot: 25 11 3 Grave Moss: 20 10 3 Khadgar's Whiskers: 100 70 7 Golden Sansam: 20 10 3 Mana Thistle: 40 24 0 Dreaming Glory: 80 41 5 Felweed: 100 50 5 Ragveil: 40 17 2 KaliopeLlane on "Milling Data" http://www.elsprofessions.com/forums/topic/milling-data/page/2#post-195 Mon, 20 Oct 2008 02:22:33 +0000 KaliopeLlane 195@http://www.elsprofessions.com/forums/ Hey El, Sorry for the delay in posting my milling info - it's been a busy week! I did not take notes on the drop volumes like some of these other folks did, I just noted the overall drop rate for the herbs: Peacebloom/Silverleaf/Earthroot (8 stacks) = 84 Alabaster Pigment (sorry, I didn't do this one right but I'm posting it anyway) 60 Mageroyal = 30 Dusky & 6 Verdant 60 Bruiseweed = 36 Dusky & 8 Verdant 60 Liferoot = 40 Golden & 6 Burnt 60 Grave Moss = 29 Golden & 1 Burnt 60 Steelbloom = 29 Golden & 2 Burnt 60 Kingsblood = 31 Golden & 5 Burnt 60 Khadgar's Whisker = 41 Emerald & 3 Indigo 60 Wintersbite = 43 Emerald & 6 Indigo 60 Goldthorn = 26 Emerald & 0 (zero) Indigo 60 Fadeleaf = 28 Emerald & 4 Indigo 60 Firebloom = 29 Violet & 0 (zero) Ruby 60 Purple Lotus = 29 Violet & 2 Ruby 60 Arthas' Tears = 34 Violet & 4 Ruby 60 Sungrass = 30 Violet & 4 Ruby 60 Sansam = 33 Silvery & 2 Sapphire 60 Dreamfoil = 30 Silvery & 1 Sapphire 60 Plaguebloom = 33 Silvery & 5 Sapphire 60 Icecap = 36 Silvery & 9 Sapphire 60 Silversage = 39 Silvery & 4 Sapphire 60 Felweed = 32 Nether & 4 Ebon 60 Ragveil = 31 Nether & 2 Ebon 60 Dreaming Glory = 30 Nether & 2 Ebon 60 Ancient Lichen = 36 Nether & 11 Ebon Forgot to mention, but these are from the Live server. I'll be doing another run on the beta server this week and will post additional numbers :) ClemSnide on "Milling Data" http://www.elsprofessions.com/forums/topic/milling-data/page/2#post-193 Sat, 18 Oct 2008 06:03:14 +0000 ClemSnide 193@http://www.elsprofessions.com/forums/ Hi, El!. I'm one of the hangers-on at Crafters Tome, and since data collection has been part of my professional life for so long, I would have done this on my own! But having multiple reports does make the conclusions more reliable. So here goes. PEACEBLOOM 5 stacks 50 Alabaster SILVERLEAF 5 stacks 42 Alabaster MAGEROYAL 7 stacks 48 Dusky 5 Verdant STRANGLEKELP 2 stacks 23 Dusky 8 Verdant BRIARTHORN 1 stack 8 Dusky BRUISEWEED 3 stacks 35 Dusky 4 Verdant SWIFTTHISTLE 4 stacks 39 Dusky 2 Verdant LIFEROOT 2 stacks 25 Golden 6 Burnt KINGSBLOOD 5 stacks 51 Golden 12 Burnt WILD STEELBLOOM 4 stacks 40 Golden 5 Burnt GRAVE MOSS 1 stack 10 Golden 2 Burnt WINTERSBITE 1 stack 16 Emerald GOLDTHORN 4 stacks 37 Emerald 3 Indigo FADELEAF 2 stacks 22 Emerald 2 Indigo KHADGAR'S WHISKER 7 stacks 83 Emerald 13 Indigo GROMSBLOOD 6.25 stacks 51 Violet 12 Ruby ARTHAS' TEARS 1.25 stacks 12 Violet 2 Ruby GHOST MUSHROOM 3 stacks 34 Violet 8 Ruby PURPLE LOTUS 2 stacks 19 Violet 1 Ruby SUNGRASS 2.5 stacks 24 Violet 3 Ruby BLINDWEED 1.75 stacks 18 Violet 3 Ruby FIREBLOOM 2.25 stacks 23 Violet 3 Ruby MOUNTAIN SILVERSAGE 1.25 stacks 17 Silvery 2 Sapphire GOLDEN SANSAM 3.25 stacks 34 Silvery 2 Sapphire DREAMFOIL 1.25 stacks 13 Silvery 2 Sapphire PLAGUEBLOOM 1.75 stacks 27 Silvery 4 Sapphire MANA THISTLE 2 stacks 23 Nether 3 Ebon That's it so fr. Hope it helps! Kirana-Mage on "Milling Data" http://www.elsprofessions.com/forums/topic/milling-data/page/2#post-187 Fri, 17 Oct 2008 14:05:42 +0000 Kirana-Mage 187@http://www.elsprofessions.com/forums/ More Milling Data. Herb - number of stacks - common - uncommon (I hope this formats correctly) Silverleaf 4.75, 49 Alabaster Peacebloom 4.25, 40 Alabaster Earthroot 2.75, 32 Alabaster Mageroyal 4.25, 40 Dusky 7 Verdant Briarthorn 3.5, 36 Dusky 1 Verdant Swifthistle 1.5, 14 Dusky 2 Verdant Bruiseweed 4, 51 Dusky 14 Verdant Stranglekelp 1.75, 18 Dusky 6 Verdant Wild Steelbloom 5.5, 55 Golden 7 Burnt Gravemoss 1.5, 14 Golden 3 Burnt Kingsblood 5, 68 Golden 10 Burnt Liferoot 4.5, 55 Golden 8 Burnt Wintersbite 3.5, 39 Emerald 7 Indigo Fadeleaf 3.25, 36 Emerald 6 Indigo Khadgars Whisker 6.5, 90 Emerald 19 Indigo Goldthorn 8.75, 87 Emerald 4 Indigo Firebloom 2.5, 25 Violet 3 Ruby Gromsblood 1.25, 18 Violet 3 Ruby Sungrass 4.25, 41 Violet 4 Ruby Ghost Mushroom .5, 5 Violet 2 Ruby Arthas Tear .75, 9 Violet 1 Ruby Blindweed 1, 12 Violet 3 Ruby Purple Lotus 7, 71 Violet 12 Ruby Plaguebloom 2.25, 26 Silvery 7 Sapphire Mount. Silversage5.25, 67 Silvery 9 Sapphire Icecap 1.5, 18 Silvery 1 Sapphire Golden Sansam 5.75, 63 Silvery 5 Sapphire Dreamfoil 6.25, 64 Silvery 5 Sapphire Felweed 6, 64 Nether 5 Ebon Dreaming Glory 9.75, 99 Nether 9 Ebon Terocone 3, 27 Nether 3 Ebon Tantoroth on "Milling Data" http://www.elsprofessions.com/forums/topic/milling-data#post-179 Thu, 16 Oct 2008 12:15:55 +0000 Tantoroth 179@http://www.elsprofessions.com/forums/ I posted a comment here, then moved it to it's own article. <a href="http://www.elsprofessions.com/forums/topic/milling-bug-issue?replies=1#post-180" rel="nofollow">http://www.elsprofessions.com/forums/topic/milling-bug-issue?replies=1#post-180</a> nebalee on "Milling Data" http://www.elsprofessions.com/forums/topic/milling-data#post-178 Thu, 16 Oct 2008 11:58:45 +0000 nebalee 178@http://www.elsprofessions.com/forums/ Hello :) These numbers are from live v3.0.2 (build 9056) EU-Lothar. I used the same formatting Saunder used: "herb name",2common,3common,4common,1uncommon,2uncommon,3uncommon "Silverleaf",10,7,0,0,0,0 "Peacebloom",4,14,0,0,0,0 "Earthroot",3,5,4,0,0,0 "Briarthorn",3,7,0,1,1,0 "Bruiseweed",2,4,2,6,0,0 "Mageroyal",14,9,0,7,0,0 "Stranglekelp",6,3,3,3,0,0 "Swiftthistle",11,2,0,5,0,0 "Grave Moss",3,3,0,1,0,0 "Kingsblood",10,17,16,19,2,1 "Liferoot",1,1,11,8,0,0 "Wild Steelbloom",9,12,0,8,0,0 "Fadeleaf",6,10,0,3,0,0 "Goldthorn",13,11,0,5,0,1 "Khadgar's Whisker",0,8,17,14,0,1 "Wintersbite",0,3,3,2,0,0 "Arthas' Tears",2,1,0,2,0,0 "Blindweed",2,6,1,5,0,0 "Firebloom",9,6,0,7,0,0 "Ghost Mushroom",0,1,1,2,0,0 "Gromsblood",4,5,2,6,0,0 "Purple Lotus",1,6,0,1,0,0 "Sungrass",11,7,0,4,0,0 "Dreamfoil",11,5,0,2,0,0 "Golden Sansam",11,4,0,2,0,0 "Icecap",9,4,4,6,0,0 "Mountain Silversage",2,4,7,8,0,0 "Plaguebloom",3,2,5,1,2,0 "Dreaming Glory",15,11,0,4,0,0 "Felweed",17,11,0,7,0,0 "Mana Thistle",0,1,0,0,0,0 "Netherbloom",5,2,0,3,1,0 The commas should make it easier to copy&paste into OOoCalc/Excel. Saunder on "Milling Data" http://www.elsprofessions.com/forums/topic/milling-data#post-176 Thu, 16 Oct 2008 02:02:54 +0000 Saunder 176@http://www.elsprofessions.com/forums/ Hi All, From the Live realms, after 3.0.2 patch (Mostly US-Aman'Thul, but also US-Dath'Remar) Each line shows the number of results for the herb in summary, in the form of: Primary pigments, 2, 3, and 4 secondary pigments, 1, 2 eg for Stanglekelp, out of 6 millings, I got 2 primary pigments twice, 3 primary pigments twice, and 4 primary pigments twice. I got 1 secondary pigment three times and 2 secondary pigments once, Peacebloom 23 16 0 0 0 Silverleaf 13 17 0 0 0 Earthroot 5 0 0 0 0 Stranglekelp 2 2 2 3 1 Mageroyal 5 4 0 1 0 Liferoot 11 5 9 15 0 Kingsblood 6 5 4 10 0 Khadgars Whisker 0 17 11 12 2 Goldthorn 3 3 0 3 0 Firebloom 2 4 0 2 0 Purple Lotus 6 7 0 2 0 Sungrass 6 9 0 3 1 Arthas Tears 0 1 0 0 0 Dreamfoil 9 11 0 4 0 Plaguebloom 6 3 3 5 0 Felweed 22 18 0 7 1 Mana Thistle 3 2 2 3 0 Ragveil 3 2 0 2 0 Ancient Lichen 1 1 2 4 0 Netherbloom 3 0 4 1 0 Yoco on "Milling Data" http://www.elsprofessions.com/forums/topic/milling-data#post-171 Tue, 14 Oct 2008 08:09:40 +0000 Yoco 171@http://www.elsprofessions.com/forums/ Is anyone aware of an addon to help gather the results of milling? I know that the wow 3 version of enchantrix (included in the preview build of auctioneer that was posted last weekend) 'sees' and summarizes milling results, but it seems the tooltips shown for herbs as modified by enchantrix uses (incorrect) hard-coded values rather than your own milling results. el on "Milling Data" http://www.elsprofessions.com/forums/topic/milling-data#post-170 Tue, 14 Oct 2008 03:24:48 +0000 el 170@http://www.elsprofessions.com/forums/ Thanks Kaliope. I'll take any recent data (last 2-3 weeks) from any source. Just add a note about where the data is from. I do not think there will be differences, but if there are, we will need to know. Data can also be mailed to el at elsanglin.com. (<a href="http://kaliope.wordpress.com/2008/10/13/wotlk-inscription-list-update-call-to-arms/">Kaliope's post is here</a>) KaliopeLlane on "Milling Data" http://www.elsprofessions.com/forums/topic/milling-data#post-166 Mon, 13 Oct 2008 19:50:33 +0000 KaliopeLlane 166@http://www.elsprofessions.com/forums/ Hey El ~ just in case the big patch makes it's debut tomorrow I put a post up asking my readers to share their info here if they're interested in helping out. I will also make notes and post them for you when I level up on Live tomorrow (or whenever, heh). Just curious, do you want data from the beta server? I'm planning to level up there as soon as it looks like they've got the progression ironed out in the 350-450 range. But I wasn't sure if you were primarily interested in Live drop rates or if you want beta information as well. I wouldn't want to taint your data pool :) el on "Milling Data" http://www.elsprofessions.com/forums/topic/milling-data#post-152 Fri, 10 Oct 2008 20:35:29 +0000 el 152@http://www.elsprofessions.com/forums/ <a href="http://kaliope.wordpress.com/2008/10/09/inscription-a-look-at-pigment-drop-rates-for-milling/">Kaliope</a> got me thinking. I suspect I've cracked the basic pattern of why some herbs appear to produce slightly more pigment than others. But I do not have sufficient data to understand the detail. I believe the explanation lies in the item level of the herbs (herb item level can only be displayed using a mod). I'm working towards a theory that says something like: Primary pigment chance = 2.5+f Secondary pigment chance = 0.2+f Where f = ( itemLevel - baseLevel ) / 25 Expected values of f would be between 0 to 0.4. I'm not sure what the baseLevel figure is. Each set roughly groups over 10 item levels, so the base may be the bottom of the 10 set, of may be the value of the lowest herb in the set, or something else quite similar based around the range. I really need lots of data, spread across all herb types - both to improve the factors, and to confirm the pattern. If correct, this would not make much difference to the primary pigment, but would alter the secondary pigment chance quite a bit. windshield on "Milling Data" http://www.elsprofessions.com/forums/topic/milling-data#post-141 Sun, 05 Oct 2008 17:27:31 +0000 windshield 141@http://www.elsprofessions.com/forums/ Okay, so I'm not alone on the Felweed/Ragveil thing. If anyone ever gets 4 from them, please let us know. In any case, it's probably cheaper to get 2-3 from Felweed/Ragveil than 2-4 from something like Mana Thistle.