http://www.elsprofessions.com/forums/tags/training Discussion about professions in World of Warcraft. en-US Thu, 29 Jul 2010 14:10:00 +0000 http://bbpress.org/?v=1.0.2 q http://www.elsprofessions.com/forums/search.php http://www.elsprofessions.com/forums/topic/actual-training-costs#post-150 Fri, 10 Oct 2008 03:15:34 +0000 el 150@http://www.elsprofessions.com/forums/ <p>If you train every recipe that is trainable, costs (without reputation reductions, to the nearest gold) are:</p> <ul> <li>Pre-Northrend: 135g.</li> <li>All, including WotLK: 977g.</li> </ul> <p>You should add the cost of rank training to that (16g pre-Northrend, 51g all). Keep in mind you can level efficiently without learning most recipes.</p> <p>The costs have been changing between beta versions, so these figure may be different in live. The WotLK values probably seem very high. Simply learning professions is one of the subtle money-sinks in Northrend, that nobody will really notice...</p> <p>I should work out the leveling costs too, and compare it to Highlander's analysis for other professions: Historically, the cost of leveling professions varied a lot. </p> http://www.elsprofessions.com/forums/topic/actual-training-costs#post-149 Fri, 10 Oct 2008 01:45:45 +0000 thunderchild 149@http://www.elsprofessions.com/forums/ <p>Does anyone have a ballpark figure of the gold required to learn all the trainable glyphs etc? At the moment, it looks like the lvl 80 equivalent glyphs will set you back about 60g per class alone which makes for an expensive outlay across 9 classes. </p> <p>Mildly curious about the total expenditure of the profession without taking into account materials.</p> <p>-thunderchild</p> <p>p.s. appear to have posted this in the general forum by mistake. my bad. If someone wishes to, or can move it to inscription, please feel free. </p> http://www.elsprofessions.com/forums/topic/a-1-300-inscription-guide/page/2#post-147 Mon, 06 Oct 2008 15:38:14 +0000 el 147@http://www.elsprofessions.com/forums/ <p><cite>Argyndale <a href="http://www.elsprofessions.com/forums/topic/a-1-300-inscription-guide/page/2#post-145" title="View original post.">wrote</a>:</cite></p> <blockquote><p>is it certain that leveling Inscription will only require herbs, the milling thereof + buyable trade goods, and not things like Essences, Primals and the like? </p></blockquote> <p>The first rule of Inscription is that nothing is certain. It will not surprise me if the live patch contains content that has never been tested. But so far all the basic items only use herbs and vendor parchments. Primal/Eternal Life is used in the best Darkmoon cards (Eternal Life is the Northrend-version of Primal Life) , and a Frozen Orb is needed for the epic off-hands (Frozen Orb heroic dungeon rewards, a lot like Primal Nethers). Neither of those will be used to level efficiently. </p> http://www.elsprofessions.com/forums/topic/a-1-300-inscription-guide/page/2#post-146 Mon, 06 Oct 2008 15:17:16 +0000 Paravel 146@http://www.elsprofessions.com/forums/ <p>Fantastic guide! I am working on a blog post about this very thing and you are a life send. I had used a few of the other guides as a framework. Logged in to the PTR and quickly found out that all the data on those sites is NOT COMPLETE! </p> <p>I will be pushing your site and checking in regularly as well as offering anything I discover. So far I have all the mats and then some.</p> <p>Thank you. </p> http://www.elsprofessions.com/forums/topic/a-1-300-inscription-guide/page/2#post-145 Mon, 06 Oct 2008 12:46:45 +0000 Argyndale 145@http://www.elsprofessions.com/forums/ <p>I've kept an eye on this site and forums and I thank you for all your efforts concerning Inscription. I have one question though: is it certain that leveling Inscription will only require herbs, the milling thereof + buyable trade goods, and not things like Essences, Primals and the like? </p> http://www.elsprofessions.com/forums/topic/a-1-300-inscription-guide/page/2#post-142 Sun, 05 Oct 2008 22:30:38 +0000 el 142@http://www.elsprofessions.com/forums/ <p>I've written up a <a href="http://www.elsprofessions.com/inscription/leveling.html">1-350 power-leveling guide</a>. It tries to adjust for known bugs and oddities, so differs slightly from the current beta/PTR build. It should give a reasonably accurate summary of the volume of herbs required when this goes live.</p> <p>However... if you read through it, you'll spot serious balance issues at 75-100 and 275-300, which I assume will be changed. 75-100 could yet become 75-125, with all other recipes moved up by 25 points (which also neatly solves the need to reach 375 without Northrend). And 275-300 is breaks all the patterns established up to that point, which does not feel right. So be particularly cautious about the herbs needed for those.</p> <p>I'd love some feedback on how the guide is laid out. Plus any factual corrections, or comments on optimisations I've made that do not make sense to you. </p> http://www.elsprofessions.com/forums/topic/a-1-300-inscription-guide/page/2#post-122 Wed, 01 Oct 2008 17:22:04 +0000 Felkan 122@http://www.elsprofessions.com/forums/ <p>Finding items isn't really the issue. It is figuring out what you need to make something. Say I find Glyph of the Chicken. It requires some paper and 2 Fowl Inks. Great. What do I need to make Fowl Ink? Scroll/search Fowl Ink. It requires Avian Pigment. Search for Avian Pigment, it requires me to mill Dragon Flowers. Run to bank and find some Dragon flowers and reverse the whole process to make the Glyph.</p> <p>Inscription has an extra step (Pigment--&gt;Inks) that makes it so clunky. With JC you just had uncut stones. There wasn't a middle step to go from uncut stones to a cut stone. And uncut stones come directly from prospecting.</p> <p>Maybe if we (I) just store Pigments in the bank along with small (4 or less flower) stacks of flowers, it won't be as bad. I could just grab swap out my Pigment bag as needed. </p> http://www.elsprofessions.com/forums/topic/a-1-300-inscription-guide/page/2#post-120 Wed, 01 Oct 2008 13:50:34 +0000 el 120@http://www.elsprofessions.com/forums/ <p>Amonia - Please send me an email (address in my profile) once you get thinking. I played around with a Javascript-based <a href="http://www.capsu.org/jumpgate/">mini-database/analysis tool</a> 7 years ago, before it was fashionable (and Ajax-style data transfer was supported by enough browsers), and would love to collaborate/feedback/host on something at some point!</p> <p>Felkan - I find specific things by searching for their name. But I'd love to have a way to browse in alphabetical order, or search by stat, or...</p> <p>The latest build is still messy after about 275 skill (green recipes after 295), but the skill-up process is fairly smooth until then. There clearly is still work being done.</p> <p>As noted in the site news, the pigments used in inks have changed. At first sight, that means more herbs! But if you are cunning, you can use the rare secondary pigments to reduce the number again. I've put together <a href="http://www.elsprofessions.com/inscription/raising_skill.html">an updated example</a> (the "better method").</p> <p>The numbers are crude. Keep in mind that the mathematically optimal balance between the recipes that use the secondary pigment, and recipes that do not, needs to consider risk (probability/chance): Milling is a variable process, so a small extra margin for error should be added. Overall, if everyone over-estimates slightly, anyone that gets really unlucky should be able to find the extra materials on the auction house. That logic works for the banking industry, so what could possibly go wrong...?</p> <p>My current estimate is about 10 stacks of herbs from each bracket - assuming the rest of the leveling curve follows the pattern below 200. But there are a few quirks at the moment, that push the figure up dramatically, simply to jump over a 5-point skill-gap. (For example, 255-260 requires 5 points of scroll-making, which immediately uses 5 times more materials than would be the case if a glyph was available.)</p> <p>It is also worth noting that more recipes "spill over" from one herb bracket to the next. For example, the basic Armor Vellum gives reliable skill-ups from 35 until over 80, so you can keep on using Moonglow Ink (Alabaster Pigment) at a stage when most recipes use Midnight Ink (Dusky Pigment). If there is a big difference in the pricing/ease of gathering of herbs between each bracket, it might make sense to keep on using the lower-level ink. </p> http://www.elsprofessions.com/forums/topic/a-1-300-inscription-guide/page/2#post-119 Wed, 01 Oct 2008 13:25:04 +0000 Felkan 119@http://www.elsprofessions.com/forums/ <p>Last night's build (9K something), changed leveling significantly. For one, you can reach 365. Plus there seems to be more orange/yellow choices between 300-355. And probably below 300, but I didn't check.</p> <p>One thing that has to be created is a new UI for inscription. It just sucks. Last night a shammy buddy wanted me to make him a glyph. It took a few minutes of scrolling up/down in that tiny UI window to figure out exactly what raw materials I needed to make the glyph.</p> <p>While you can link [Inscription] to another player, most are not going to be able to figure out (from that crappy ui) what raw materials they need to give you to make the glyph.</p> <p>Let's hope inscribers make friends with an addon developer soon. </p> http://www.elsprofessions.com/forums/topic/a-1-300-inscription-guide/page/2#post-117 Mon, 29 Sep 2008 15:43:29 +0000 Amonia 117@http://www.elsprofessions.com/forums/ <p><cite>el <a href="http://www.elsprofessions.com/forums/topic/a-1-300-inscription-guide/page/2#post-103" title="View original post.">wrote</a>:</cite></p> <blockquote><p>Skill-ups are still in a mess in the current build, with high reliance on green recipes.<br /> Amonia: The spreadsheet is very impressive. This is probably how skill-ups should be done. Some comments:<br /> 1. I'm a big fan of <em>complex</em> spreadsheets, but most players will just see numbers, and will continue to just see numbers until there are only 3 options and 1 result visible.<br /> 2. It should be web-based. WoW players are nervous about anything that runs macros, talks to the internet, and walks through data in their WoW folder! Plus not everyone has spreadsheet software available.<br /> 3. This one's a bit technical: Following that logic I started thinking about a Javascript-based web "page" (web-based, but transfers all the number crunching to the client's machine - server load quickly becomes an issue for a popular WoW site), possibly with Ajax-type requests for specific datasets. The weakest area is auction house price information, however this data is collected for all servers by others already (for a price). I presume Wowhead data is used via their XML output? If so, they may pull the plug on the feed if too much traffic is lost without gaining them any advertising revenue (from memory they've said in the past that nobody should rely on it).<br /> 4. Wowhead's data needs to be sanitised: For example, it picks up research: Level 75, with a 20 hour cooldown - not suited to most leveling strategies! Once professions are live, trainable recipes do not change frequently (whole years pass), so a human filtering is entirely viable. Other professions will also be restricted at higher-level by daily quest tokens, which are increasingly required to progress up to 450 (Inscription does not use tokens yet).<br /> 5. Alternatively, convert the whole thing into an in-game addon, and use data as it occurs in-game. I assume there is a reason why this is not as straight-forward as it sounds. Or possibly it is just such a huge programming/data management task that nobody is prepared to do it for free (and Blizzard offers no mechanism by which addon authors can make money from their efforts).<br /> I'd love to do something with this. Not just for Inscription - indeed Inscription is becoming very linear anyway, with the only real choice between herbs within each bracket. Unfortunately I would need to wait until WotLK is done: As you can probably imagine, researching and writing 2 WoW websites is quite time consuming at the moment!</p></blockquote> <p>Wow, that's a lot of work you're talking about ^^<br /> However I like the challenge and will think about the javascript version (maybe light version to start with). </p> http://www.elsprofessions.com/forums/topic/a-1-300-inscription-guide/page/2#post-115 Mon, 29 Sep 2008 13:18:35 +0000 Felkan 115@http://www.elsprofessions.com/forums/ <p><cite>el <a href="http://www.elsprofessions.com/forums/topic/a-1-300-inscription-guide/page/2#post-114" title="View original post.">wrote</a>:</cite></p> <blockquote><p>I could be wrong, but if Inscription goes live in its current form, a lot of players will get frustrated with in before they even reach Northrend!</blockquote> Very true. Even on the PTR in which I really didn't care what happened, I wanted to scream and pull my hair out. Let's hope something changes.... </p> http://www.elsprofessions.com/forums/topic/a-1-300-inscription-guide/page/2#post-114 Mon, 29 Sep 2008 10:54:47 +0000 el 114@http://www.elsprofessions.com/forums/ <p>Blizzard often state that they will not require pre-expansion content to be played to progress into subsequent expansions. I don't expect any recipes to be added to existing rep vendors, or any dungeon run or drop to be required to level Inscription.</p> <p>Overall, the early, mid, and late parts of the leveling curve are inconsistent with one another. Professions are generally more consistent throughout: The difficulty at higher levels is purely based on the rarity/expense/volume of higher level reagents used in recipes, not that all the recipes are suddenly green in the mid-stage. Reliance on green recipes as the "best option" just causes player frustration, because chance becomes the most important factor. No need to create that frustration around in the mid-skill levels, and that doesn't fit with the current "instant satisfaction" approach to profession training. (Remember the enchanting trainer in the back of Uldarman? Or the cooking artisan quest? Or Mithril? Now trainers are visible as soon as players get the expansion.)</p> <p>Blizzard's favoured design approach seems to be to experiment with a small part of the game, get that balance "right", and then apply that pattern to everything else. Inscription has seen a lot of tweaking at lower levels. A lot of recipe types first appeared as single items between skill 1 and 100, and have since been added all the way up the chain. I think for the last 2 months they've been playing with the lower levels, and anything that appears at higher level has been randomly allocated.</p> <p>I could be wrong, but if Inscription goes live in its current form, a lot of players will get frustrated with in before they even reach Northrend! </p> http://www.elsprofessions.com/forums/topic/a-1-300-inscription-guide/page/2#post-111 Mon, 29 Sep 2008 03:08:11 +0000 Felkan 111@http://www.elsprofessions.com/forums/ <p><cite>el <a href="http://www.elsprofessions.com/forums/topic/a-1-300-inscription-guide/page/2#post-103" title="View original post.">wrote</a>:</cite></p> <blockquote><p>Skill-ups are still in a mess in the current build, with high reliance on green recipes.</blockquote> Don't you think this is by design? Or maybe there will be outland rep based recipes? Or outland instance recipes to fill in the gaps?</p> <p>FWIW, I made to to 355, but the last 40-45 points was with green recipes. That consumed lots-o-mats. Maybe 30-40 stacks of Outland mats. Ouch! </p> http://www.elsprofessions.com/forums/topic/a-1-300-inscription-guide/page/2#post-105 Sun, 28 Sep 2008 21:07:48 +0000 Gummo 105@http://www.elsprofessions.com/forums/ <p>"testchar" on Alliance on the PTR is 352 inscription and has all recipes that are currently available. </p> http://www.elsprofessions.com/forums/topic/a-1-300-inscription-guide/page/2#post-103 Sun, 28 Sep 2008 08:56:42 +0000 el 103@http://www.elsprofessions.com/forums/ <p>Skill-ups are still in a mess in the current build, with high reliance on green recipes.</p> <p>Amonia: The spreadsheet is very impressive. This is probably how skill-ups should be done. Some comments:</p> <p>1. I'm a big fan of <em>complex</em> spreadsheets, but most players will just see numbers, and will continue to just see numbers until there are only 3 options and 1 result visible.</p> <p>2. It should be web-based. WoW players are nervous about anything that runs macros, talks to the internet, and walks through data in their WoW folder! Plus not everyone has spreadsheet software available.</p> <p>3. This one's a bit technical: Following that logic I started thinking about a Javascript-based web "page" (web-based, but transfers all the number crunching to the client's machine - server load quickly becomes an issue for a popular WoW site), possibly with Ajax-type requests for specific datasets. The weakest area is auction house price information, however this data is collected for all servers by others already (for a price). I presume Wowhead data is used via their XML output? If so, they may pull the plug on the feed if too much traffic is lost without gaining them any advertising revenue (from memory they've said in the past that nobody should rely on it).</p> <p>4. Wowhead's data needs to be sanitised: For example, it picks up research: Level 75, with a 20 hour cooldown - not suited to most leveling strategies! Once professions are live, trainable recipes do not change frequently (whole years pass), so a human filtering is entirely viable. Other professions will also be restricted at higher-level by daily quest tokens, which are increasingly required to progress up to 450 (Inscription does not use tokens yet).</p> <p>5. Alternatively, convert the whole thing into an in-game addon, and use data as it occurs in-game. I assume there is a reason why this is not as straight-forward as it sounds. Or possibly it is just such a huge programming/data management task that nobody is prepared to do it for free (and Blizzard offers no mechanism by which addon authors can make money from their efforts).</p> <p>I'd love to do something with this. Not just for Inscription - indeed Inscription is becoming very linear anyway, with the only real choice between herbs within each bracket. Unfortunately I would need to wait until WotLK is done: As you can probably imagine, researching and writing 2 WoW websites is quite time consuming at the moment! </p> http://www.elsprofessions.com/forums/topic/a-1-300-inscription-guide/page/2#post-102 Fri, 26 Sep 2008 20:03:04 +0000 Felkan 102@http://www.elsprofessions.com/forums/ <p>There is definately a long range (20-25 points) in which I could only make scrolls and/or vellums. </p> http://www.elsprofessions.com/forums/topic/a-1-300-inscription-guide/page/2#post-101 Fri, 26 Sep 2008 18:34:35 +0000 Blizkin 101@http://www.elsprofessions.com/forums/ <p>2 Builds back I leveled to 353 inscription. It was pretty simple.<br /> Now with the latest build I started leveling on another toon and once I hit 200 the glyphs weren't leveling me. They were always gray and I had to make scrolls to level. They required 5 inks and also had to make some Vellums and books. I am currently at 240. Hopefully Glyphs will start leveling me again. </p> http://www.elsprofessions.com/forums/topic/a-1-300-inscription-guide/page/2#post-100 Fri, 26 Sep 2008 13:26:02 +0000 Felkan 100@http://www.elsprofessions.com/forums/ <p><cite>Amonia <a href="http://www.elsprofessions.com/forums/topic/a-1-300-inscription-guide/page/2#post-96" title="View original post.">wrote</a>:</cite></p> <blockquote><p><cite>Here it is ! <a href="http://thechosenone.free.fr/WoW/Leveling_Professions_v0.10.zip" rel="nofollow">http://thechosenone.free.fr/WoW/Leveling_Professions_v0.10.zip</a><br /> Going back to xls file format removed the xml compression... the file is now 30+megs ...<br /> </cite></p> </blockquote> <p>Awesome XLS. Can't wait for Blizzard to "finish" inscription so your sheet can be updated to reflect current values. </p> http://www.elsprofessions.com/forums/topic/a-1-300-inscription-guide/page/2#post-99 Fri, 26 Sep 2008 04:40:05 +0000 Felkan 99@http://www.elsprofessions.com/forums/ <p>I'm currently up to 298 on the PTR. I only have 4 green recipes (Manual of Clouds, Stormbound Tome, Darkmoon Card, Ink of the Sky) to choose from between 295 and 300 as Glyph of the Plague Strike is now a lvl 300 recipe. I've gone through 5-6 stacks of flowers to get the 3 points after 295!</p> <p>Also currently there isn't a lexicon in the outlands, but there is a horde trainer/supplier in Thrallmar. Which means once I do hit 300 I need to fly/port back-n-forth between old world and outlands to level past 300. I hope they add a lexicon to the outlands soon. otherwise that will really suck.</p> <p>I started on the PTR with 10 stacks of type 1 and type 2 herbs and 20 stacks of type 3, 4, 5 and 6. I'm probably 5-8 stacks short of type 6 (I hope). I had zero issues leveling until I reached skill level 295.</p> <p>I think I have ~45 stacks of type 7 (Outland) herbs, but I can't use them until I reach 300. </p> http://www.elsprofessions.com/forums/topic/a-1-300-inscription-guide/page/2#post-98 Thu, 25 Sep 2008 20:35:18 +0000 markroberts 98@http://www.elsprofessions.com/forums/ <p>I have leveled up easily enough and quite fast up until the last revision on the PTR.</p> <p>I stopped @ lvl 230, there is only 4 recipes available to make for skill points, some kind of vellum, I then used up 5 fiery and 50 heavy parchment leveling to 235 thinking new recipes @ 235 and @ 240.</p> <p>Yes 2 new recipes were available @ 235 but they were both green so I'm left with needing 15 more skill points to the next new recipes @ 250 and having to go out and mill another 15 fiery ink which is a little retarded and I decided thats as far as I'm going with Inscription on the PTR.</p> <p>It just seems a little bottlenecked around 230 -250 atm but i'm sure they'll iron it out for when they go live, (I hope) </p>