El's Professions - WoW Guides » Tag: Milling Pigments

El's Professions - WoW Guides » Tag: Milling Pigments - Recent Posts http://www.elsprofessions.com/forums/tags/milling-pigments Discussion about professions in World of Warcraft. en-US Fri, 10 Feb 2012 23:18:49 +0000 http://bbpress.org/?v=1.0.3 <![CDATA[Search]]> q http://www.elsprofessions.com/forums/search.php vladdy on "Icy Pigment" http://www.elsprofessions.com/forums/topic/icy-pigment#post-330 Tue, 02 Jun 2009 13:51:19 +0000 vladdy 330@http://www.elsprofessions.com/forums/ I seem to get 1 in 5 mills. el on "Milling Data" http://www.elsprofessions.com/forums/topic/milling-data/page/2#post-295 Wed, 18 Feb 2009 00:38:20 +0000 el 295@http://www.elsprofessions.com/forums/ <a href="http://elitistjerks.com/f15/t29288-wotlk_profession_thread/p68/#post1104785">Cross-reference to Elitist Jerks prospecting discussion</a>. Rather interesting theory (cascading loot table), and relevant because we suspect Milling and Prospecting use the same mechanic. (They appear to share the same rare bug - one that can result in a stack of materials failing to break-down without explanation, until the stack is rearranged with at least one item from the stack discarded... Which might suggest that the randomness of the outcome is "seeded" into each individual item within the stack, not simply randomized at the time the stack is actually broken down.) I'm planning to re-analyse the original data to see if the patterns above match - but I may get distracted by patch 3.1... riveth on "Milling Data" http://www.elsprofessions.com/forums/topic/milling-data/page/2#post-294 Mon, 16 Feb 2009 02:31:29 +0000 riveth 294@http://www.elsprofessions.com/forums/ <cite>el <a href="http://www.elsprofessions.com/forums/topic/milling-data/page/2#post-293" title="View original post.">wrote</a>:</cite> <blockquote>[Wowhead's] data is unfortunately optimized for dungeon loot. So, for primary pigments, they record a 100% chance of "2-4"... We can't read that as an average of 3. Indeed, all the personal observations suggest 2 is the most common result from primary millings. Likewise, the 50% chance of "1-3" for secondary pigments, is strongly biased towards "1" - so the average amount gained for a "50% herb" is around 0.6 pigment per milling. </blockquote> Agreed. The Wowhead data alone does not provide enough information to determine milling probabilities. The Enchantrix team has brought this up to Wowhead (<a href="http://www.wowhead.com/?forums&topic=60825&p=803792)" rel="nofollow">http://www.wowhead.com/?forums&topic=60825&p=803792)</a>. Interestingly, the prospect data is normalized to not show a range, but the total result. I'm pretty sure milling uses a two roll system: first pass to decide if you get the secondary pigment, second pass to determine how many of each pigment you get. I would love to get copes of the Enchantrix.lua saved variables from some inscribers. Enchantrix saves data on every disenchant/prospect/mill you do, so combining the result quantities with the Wowhead probabilities should give the probability of getting >2 primary or >1 secondary. el on "Milling Data" http://www.elsprofessions.com/forums/topic/milling-data/page/2#post-293 Sun, 15 Feb 2009 22:14:33 +0000 el 293@http://www.elsprofessions.com/forums/ Interesting. Thanks for posting. I think we <a href="http://www.elsprofessions.com/inscription/milling_pigments.html">knew</a> item-level was important, but originally couldn't work out the precise relationship. Now that Wowhead lists thousands of millings, the 25% vs 50% split can be very clearly seen. Their data is unfortunately optimized for dungeon loot. So, for primary pigments, they record a 100% chance of "2-4"... We can't read that as an average of 3. Indeed, all the personal observations suggest 2 is the most common result from primary millings. Likewise, the 50% chance of "1-3" for secondary pigments, is strongly biased towards "1" - so the average amount gained for a "50% herb" is around 0.6 pigment per milling. riveth on "Milling Data" http://www.elsprofessions.com/forums/topic/milling-data/page/2#post-292 Sun, 15 Feb 2009 13:52:39 +0000 riveth 292@http://www.elsprofessions.com/forums/ Looking at Wowhead a few months later, there is clearly a pattern emerging: Uncommon pigments either are milling 25% or 50% of the time from a given herb. After the game decides whether to give an uncommon pigment, then it decides how many to give. Milling is is pretty clearly breaking down along item level lines, not just milling required lines. Verdant Pigment: iLvl 10-15: 25% of millings iLvl 20: 50% Burnt Pigment: iLvl 22: 25% iLvl 24-30: 50% Indigo Pigment: iLvl 32-34: 25% iLvl 37-39: 50% Ruby Pigment: iLvl 41-46: 25% iLvl 47-50: 50% Sapphire Pigment: iLvl 51-54: 25% iLvl 56-58: 50% Ebon Pigment: iLvl 60-65: 25% iLvl 66-70: 50% Icy Pigment: iLvl 72: 25% iLvl: 75: Not enough data ILvl 77-80: 50% Unfortunately Wowhead does not break down the probabilities of getting 1, 2, 3, or 4 of an item. Nils on "Icy Pigment" http://www.elsprofessions.com/forums/topic/icy-pigment#post-260 Fri, 12 Dec 2008 18:55:32 +0000 Nils 260@http://www.elsprofessions.com/forums/ Its definitely lower for me, than it was a few weeks ago (around 3.0.3 release, give or take a couple days). But I have only kept actual stats over the last week. 198 total millings for 52 Icy Pigments (0.26 yield). I'd say at 50 stacks of herbs, this is starting to be statistically significant. Yes, I have gotten 3 icy pigments form a single milling, and had a day where 30 millings yielded 13 pigmets (0.43 yield) - but this day was countered by two other days where I went 38:9 and 31:6 I have not collected enough stats "by herb type" to be statistically significant "by herb type", yet, but am working on that. I'll continue to keep stats by day, so they can be reconciled by server restarts and/or patches and share when I find anything useful, or different. sorro on "Icy Pigment" http://www.elsprofessions.com/forums/topic/icy-pigment#post-248 Tue, 02 Dec 2008 16:43:15 +0000 sorro 248@http://www.elsprofessions.com/forums/ I haven't seen a decrease overall. I have noticed it to be more random though. There are times now where I will mill 40 adders toungue and get 1. The next time I do 40 I will get 8. You just never know what you will get. I have been getting Icy Pigment x3 on many mills recently. Maybe they are increasing the amount you get each time but decreasing how often you get them. el on "Icy Pigment" http://www.elsprofessions.com/forums/topic/icy-pigment#post-244 Fri, 28 Nov 2008 22:42:29 +0000 el 244@http://www.elsprofessions.com/forums/ There are also a few comments in the <a href="http://elitistjerks.com/f15/t29288-wotlk_profession_thread/p58/">Elitist Jerks thread</a> suggesting a change in the outcome from milling and prospecting (which based on the bugs, appear to share the same code-base). Hard to prove anything at this stage, but it looks like there may have been a glitch following the latest server restart, at least on some realms. Worth watching... thunderchild on "Icy Pigment" http://www.elsprofessions.com/forums/topic/icy-pigment#post-243 Fri, 28 Nov 2008 03:25:59 +0000 thunderchild 243@http://www.elsprofessions.com/forums/ In the last three days, I've found the drop rate of this item to be almost vanishingly small from milling. 110 Icethorn - 7 95 Lichbloom - 6 80 Adder's tongue - 6 40 Goldclover - 3 Has anyone else noticed a decrease in the propensity of this item to be found in milling?? Also, the northrend card skill up has been less than stellar. -thunderchild nebalee on "Milling Data" http://www.elsprofessions.com/forums/topic/milling-data/page/2#post-239 Thu, 20 Nov 2008 03:20:47 +0000 nebalee 239@http://www.elsprofessions.com/forums/ Some data mainly with Northrend herbs: live v3.0.3 (build 9183) EU-Lothar Format: "herb name",2common,3common,4common,1uncommon,2uncommon,3uncommon "Silverleaf",4,2,0,0,0,0 "Peacebloom",2,2,0,0,0,0 "Earthroot",0,1,3,0,0,0 "Mana Thistle",1,0,0,1,0,0 "Ancient Lichen",4,0,0,2,0,0 "Goldclover",6,10,0,3,0,0 "Tiger Lily",22,27,0,9,0,0 "Deadnettle",11,14,0,7,0,0 "Adder's Tongue",9,13,13,16,0,0 "Icethorn",35,28,28,51,1,0 "Lichbloom",29,38,25,43,2,0 ishkate on "Milling Data" http://www.elsprofessions.com/forums/topic/milling-data/page/2#post-232 Sun, 02 Nov 2008 18:52:42 +0000 ishkate 232@http://www.elsprofessions.com/forums/ Posting some early-phase milling data before I lose the sheet it's written on: 55 Peacebloom : 27 alabaster 75 Silverleaf : 38 alabaster 70 Earthroot : 44 alabaster 35 Briarthorn : 15 dusky 135 Stranglekelp : 70 dusky + 10 verdant 25 Bruiseweed : 16 dusky + 4 verdant 35 Mageroyal : 18 dusky + 4 verdant 105 Kingsblood : 58 golden + 10 burnt 25 Liferoot : 12 golden + 4 burnt 20 Goldthorn : 9 emerald (ed : data from live servers - wasn't in the beta) el on "Milling Data" http://www.elsprofessions.com/forums/topic/milling-data/page/2#post-221 Sun, 26 Oct 2008 18:30:27 +0000 el 221@http://www.elsprofessions.com/forums/ Many thanks to everyone who posted or sent data! I've updated <a href="http://www.elsprofessions.com/inscription/milling_pigments.html">the results here</a>. It's still not completely conclusive, but there seems to be some relationship between the number of pigments and the level of the herb. Kuradora on "Milling Data" http://www.elsprofessions.com/forums/topic/milling-data/page/2#post-208 Wed, 22 Oct 2008 18:17:05 +0000 Kuradora 208@http://www.elsprofessions.com/forums/ I just got back into town, having been away since patch went live, so I don't have any working mods for data gathering in place just yet. I went from 1-365 in a few hours, and everything is gray to me atm. I did want to point out an observation I made over the course of my hundreds of millings: It seems that in each group, there is at least 1 type of herb that will get you more of the secondary pigment than all the others for that grouping. I noticed in some cases the secondary pigment was given as 3 or 4 even, rather than just 1 or 2. I don't know if it's a fluke of good fortune or if the same applies everywhere, but I do know I saw quite a few sets of 3 and 4 in the last 2 groupings below 300. Also, I noticed that among outlands herbs, Lichen and Nightmare Vine had a tendency to grant a single secondary at a time, but they were more frequent than in say, felweed. Hope this helps! Edit: I forgot to note which herbs exactly the 3-4 secondaries came from, but I do recall that either silversage or dreamfoil, and possibly gromsblood, had this effect. I remember only because I was concerned about blowing herbs that already had higher costs on my server pre-patch(and months beforehand). Turned out they did well ^.^ Kuradora on "Milling bug issue" http://www.elsprofessions.com/forums/topic/milling-bug-issue#post-207 Wed, 22 Oct 2008 17:51:57 +0000 Kuradora 207@http://www.elsprofessions.com/forums/ I had this same problem, but I had just wizzed up to the 300's in a mere few hours. I was having the problem with a stack of 15 felweed, which was making it impossible to mill any of the felweed in my bags. Annoyed, I assumed it was the same thing as with JC - after so many stacks of the same thing, you have to wait a certain amount of time to be able to use that particular kind again. So I did the ssame thing I do with JC. I mailed them to an alt, got a different kind of herb from my mailbox, and went through about a dozen or more stacks of something else before I tried the felweed again. first time it didn't work, so I did some more stacks, and after a while the felweed went through. I'm wondering if it's a certain amount of time you have to wait, or a certain number of other milling/crafting you have to do, though of course it's possible that it is, like you say, a bug waiting to be fixed. Tsark on "Milling Data" http://www.elsprofessions.com/forums/topic/milling-data/page/2#post-201 Tue, 21 Oct 2008 14:37:02 +0000 Tsark 201@http://www.elsprofessions.com/forums/ Another Crafter's Tome reader, and another set of data. I see now that I could have done a much better job of recording frequency of 2s and 3s - I just recorded overall data. Another caveat is that I did several rounds of milling, and for some of these rounds I totally forgot to record data at all (yeah I know, total ADD case....), which explains some of the missing herbs. So, anyway, data from live - format is number of herbs (not stacks, because sometimes I did half stacks, etc), common pigment, uncommon pigment: Peacebloom: 80 38 0 Silverleaf: 40 21 0 Mageroyal: 80 32 4 Bruiseweed: 15 9 4 Bruiseweed (part 2): 80 49 6 Swiftthistle: 10 6 0 Swiftthistle (part 2): 20 9 2 Wild Steelbloom: 20 10 3 Kingsblood: 30 17 3 Liferoot: 25 11 3 Grave Moss: 20 10 3 Khadgar's Whiskers: 100 70 7 Golden Sansam: 20 10 3 Mana Thistle: 40 24 0 Dreaming Glory: 80 41 5 Felweed: 100 50 5 Ragveil: 40 17 2 KaliopeLlane on "Milling Data" http://www.elsprofessions.com/forums/topic/milling-data/page/2#post-195 Mon, 20 Oct 2008 02:22:33 +0000 KaliopeLlane 195@http://www.elsprofessions.com/forums/ Hey El, Sorry for the delay in posting my milling info - it's been a busy week! I did not take notes on the drop volumes like some of these other folks did, I just noted the overall drop rate for the herbs: Peacebloom/Silverleaf/Earthroot (8 stacks) = 84 Alabaster Pigment (sorry, I didn't do this one right but I'm posting it anyway) 60 Mageroyal = 30 Dusky & 6 Verdant 60 Bruiseweed = 36 Dusky & 8 Verdant 60 Liferoot = 40 Golden & 6 Burnt 60 Grave Moss = 29 Golden & 1 Burnt 60 Steelbloom = 29 Golden & 2 Burnt 60 Kingsblood = 31 Golden & 5 Burnt 60 Khadgar's Whisker = 41 Emerald & 3 Indigo 60 Wintersbite = 43 Emerald & 6 Indigo 60 Goldthorn = 26 Emerald & 0 (zero) Indigo 60 Fadeleaf = 28 Emerald & 4 Indigo 60 Firebloom = 29 Violet & 0 (zero) Ruby 60 Purple Lotus = 29 Violet & 2 Ruby 60 Arthas' Tears = 34 Violet & 4 Ruby 60 Sungrass = 30 Violet & 4 Ruby 60 Sansam = 33 Silvery & 2 Sapphire 60 Dreamfoil = 30 Silvery & 1 Sapphire 60 Plaguebloom = 33 Silvery & 5 Sapphire 60 Icecap = 36 Silvery & 9 Sapphire 60 Silversage = 39 Silvery & 4 Sapphire 60 Felweed = 32 Nether & 4 Ebon 60 Ragveil = 31 Nether & 2 Ebon 60 Dreaming Glory = 30 Nether & 2 Ebon 60 Ancient Lichen = 36 Nether & 11 Ebon Forgot to mention, but these are from the Live server. I'll be doing another run on the beta server this week and will post additional numbers :) ClemSnide on "Milling Data" http://www.elsprofessions.com/forums/topic/milling-data/page/2#post-193 Sat, 18 Oct 2008 06:03:14 +0000 ClemSnide 193@http://www.elsprofessions.com/forums/ Hi, El!. I'm one of the hangers-on at Crafters Tome, and since data collection has been part of my professional life for so long, I would have done this on my own! But having multiple reports does make the conclusions more reliable. So here goes. PEACEBLOOM 5 stacks 50 Alabaster SILVERLEAF 5 stacks 42 Alabaster MAGEROYAL 7 stacks 48 Dusky 5 Verdant STRANGLEKELP 2 stacks 23 Dusky 8 Verdant BRIARTHORN 1 stack 8 Dusky BRUISEWEED 3 stacks 35 Dusky 4 Verdant SWIFTTHISTLE 4 stacks 39 Dusky 2 Verdant LIFEROOT 2 stacks 25 Golden 6 Burnt KINGSBLOOD 5 stacks 51 Golden 12 Burnt WILD STEELBLOOM 4 stacks 40 Golden 5 Burnt GRAVE MOSS 1 stack 10 Golden 2 Burnt WINTERSBITE 1 stack 16 Emerald GOLDTHORN 4 stacks 37 Emerald 3 Indigo FADELEAF 2 stacks 22 Emerald 2 Indigo KHADGAR'S WHISKER 7 stacks 83 Emerald 13 Indigo GROMSBLOOD 6.25 stacks 51 Violet 12 Ruby ARTHAS' TEARS 1.25 stacks 12 Violet 2 Ruby GHOST MUSHROOM 3 stacks 34 Violet 8 Ruby PURPLE LOTUS 2 stacks 19 Violet 1 Ruby SUNGRASS 2.5 stacks 24 Violet 3 Ruby BLINDWEED 1.75 stacks 18 Violet 3 Ruby FIREBLOOM 2.25 stacks 23 Violet 3 Ruby MOUNTAIN SILVERSAGE 1.25 stacks 17 Silvery 2 Sapphire GOLDEN SANSAM 3.25 stacks 34 Silvery 2 Sapphire DREAMFOIL 1.25 stacks 13 Silvery 2 Sapphire PLAGUEBLOOM 1.75 stacks 27 Silvery 4 Sapphire MANA THISTLE 2 stacks 23 Nether 3 Ebon That's it so fr. Hope it helps! Kirana-Mage on "Milling Data" http://www.elsprofessions.com/forums/topic/milling-data/page/2#post-187 Fri, 17 Oct 2008 14:05:42 +0000 Kirana-Mage 187@http://www.elsprofessions.com/forums/ More Milling Data. Herb - number of stacks - common - uncommon (I hope this formats correctly) Silverleaf 4.75, 49 Alabaster Peacebloom 4.25, 40 Alabaster Earthroot 2.75, 32 Alabaster Mageroyal 4.25, 40 Dusky 7 Verdant Briarthorn 3.5, 36 Dusky 1 Verdant Swifthistle 1.5, 14 Dusky 2 Verdant Bruiseweed 4, 51 Dusky 14 Verdant Stranglekelp 1.75, 18 Dusky 6 Verdant Wild Steelbloom 5.5, 55 Golden 7 Burnt Gravemoss 1.5, 14 Golden 3 Burnt Kingsblood 5, 68 Golden 10 Burnt Liferoot 4.5, 55 Golden 8 Burnt Wintersbite 3.5, 39 Emerald 7 Indigo Fadeleaf 3.25, 36 Emerald 6 Indigo Khadgars Whisker 6.5, 90 Emerald 19 Indigo Goldthorn 8.75, 87 Emerald 4 Indigo Firebloom 2.5, 25 Violet 3 Ruby Gromsblood 1.25, 18 Violet 3 Ruby Sungrass 4.25, 41 Violet 4 Ruby Ghost Mushroom .5, 5 Violet 2 Ruby Arthas Tear .75, 9 Violet 1 Ruby Blindweed 1, 12 Violet 3 Ruby Purple Lotus 7, 71 Violet 12 Ruby Plaguebloom 2.25, 26 Silvery 7 Sapphire Mount. Silversage5.25, 67 Silvery 9 Sapphire Icecap 1.5, 18 Silvery 1 Sapphire Golden Sansam 5.75, 63 Silvery 5 Sapphire Dreamfoil 6.25, 64 Silvery 5 Sapphire Felweed 6, 64 Nether 5 Ebon Dreaming Glory 9.75, 99 Nether 9 Ebon Terocone 3, 27 Nether 3 Ebon Tantoroth on "Milling bug issue" http://www.elsprofessions.com/forums/topic/milling-bug-issue#post-186 Fri, 17 Oct 2008 12:19:17 +0000 Tantoroth 186@http://www.elsprofessions.com/forums/ As always, I'm typing this up from work, so I don't have any means to testfire and troubleshoot till I get home. Last night and his morning I was able to trick mill through my herbs. It always seems to be the same stack in my bags... so I just made little stacks, and combined them into 5's untill I could wead-out the bugged herb I must have gathered.... See I was thinking maybe, it might just be one in the stack that is makeing the whole stack un-useable or a few in the stack. So I went through them and when I got down to one, I tossed it, and herbed again. Even if that works for all, it still seems like a retarded solution, that only the BIG purple crayon people would think up. No offence to the purple crayon people. Looks like doing the log thing might work, but I logged off over night and still had the same issue with the same stack. The process I listed above worked (for a desperate man), and I just left the stack there and kept working... I'm past that level herbs, but I was reluctant to even put it on the AH incase someone else ended up having the same issue with that stack... saladin77 on "Milling bug issue" http://www.elsprofessions.com/forums/topic/milling-bug-issue#post-184 Thu, 16 Oct 2008 23:54:11 +0000 saladin77 184@http://www.elsprofessions.com/forums/ Ya this bug has been around since TBC with prospect. Actually i have never had the problem with old world ore or herbs, all though i have not tested it on enough herbs. Just log out and back in. I doubt the bug will be fixed any time soon.