http://www.elsprofessions.com/forums/tags/leveling Discussion about professions in World of Warcraft. en-US Wed, 08 Sep 2010 16:49:41 +0000 http://bbpress.org/?v=1.0.2 q http://www.elsprofessions.com/forums/search.php http://www.elsprofessions.com/forums/topic/level-up-inscription-before-finishing-minor-research#post-277 Sun, 04 Jan 2009 21:08:47 +0000 Rhamona 277@http://www.elsprofessions.com/forums/ <p>I'd say go for it whenever you are able. The more you learn, the more valuable you are to your guild, and the more opportunities you have to start making some of the money back that you've put in. </p> http://www.elsprofessions.com/forums/topic/level-up-inscription-before-finishing-minor-research#post-269 Mon, 29 Dec 2008 11:53:37 +0000 Zim 269@http://www.elsprofessions.com/forums/ <p>There is no point in waiting all minors, you will have another discoverer based past 400 so at least go until you can discover 2 glyphs a day.</p> <p>Zim. </p> http://www.elsprofessions.com/forums/topic/level-up-inscription-before-finishing-minor-research#post-268 Sat, 27 Dec 2008 16:08:09 +0000 Nick255 268@http://www.elsprofessions.com/forums/ <p>Is it a good idea to wait to level up inscription until you have learned all the minor glyphs at your current level or is it better to increase your inscription skill whenever you can? </p> http://www.elsprofessions.com/forums/topic/windshields-inscription-guide#post-148 Mon, 06 Oct 2008 17:24:13 +0000 windshield 148@http://www.elsprofessions.com/forums/ <p><cite>el <a href="http://www.elsprofessions.com/forums/topic/windshields-inscription-guide#post-144" title="View original post.">wrote</a>:</cite></p> <blockquote><p>I assume you are using the Alabaster set into the 80s because these herbs tend to be cheaper - and this is the exception where the first skill block does not use 2 inks in all the final recipes, so it makes sense to continue using the cheaper herbs?</p></blockquote> <p>Yeah. I figured since Armor Vellum is still yellow, cheap, and useful... why not.</p> <p><cite>el <a href="http://www.elsprofessions.com/forums/topic/windshields-inscription-guide#post-144" title="View original post.">wrote</a>:</cite></p> <blockquote><p>As a side note: inks seem to always sell to vendor for more than the value of their raw pigments, so it should be worth making inks out of all the secondary pigments you gain - you have nothing to loose.</p></blockquote> <p>Secondary pigments. I did agonize a bit over those. If I'm remembering this correctly, I favored making secondary inks only when the gold-saving factor (i.e. avoiding making something else in those 5 levels that's expensive) outweighed the annoyance/unpredictability factor (since most of them are green). I also figured that the raw secondary pigments would be in high demand on the AH, but that's just a guess.</p> <p>Like I said, my guide is sort of a different style. It's based more on my personal preferences than anything else. : ) </p> http://www.elsprofessions.com/forums/topic/a-1-300-inscription-guide/page/2#post-147 Mon, 06 Oct 2008 15:38:14 +0000 el 147@http://www.elsprofessions.com/forums/ <p><cite>Argyndale <a href="http://www.elsprofessions.com/forums/topic/a-1-300-inscription-guide/page/2#post-145" title="View original post.">wrote</a>:</cite></p> <blockquote><p>is it certain that leveling Inscription will only require herbs, the milling thereof + buyable trade goods, and not things like Essences, Primals and the like? </p></blockquote> <p>The first rule of Inscription is that nothing is certain. It will not surprise me if the live patch contains content that has never been tested. But so far all the basic items only use herbs and vendor parchments. Primal/Eternal Life is used in the best Darkmoon cards (Eternal Life is the Northrend-version of Primal Life) , and a Frozen Orb is needed for the epic off-hands (Frozen Orb heroic dungeon rewards, a lot like Primal Nethers). Neither of those will be used to level efficiently. </p> http://www.elsprofessions.com/forums/topic/a-1-300-inscription-guide/page/2#post-146 Mon, 06 Oct 2008 15:17:16 +0000 Paravel 146@http://www.elsprofessions.com/forums/ <p>Fantastic guide! I am working on a blog post about this very thing and you are a life send. I had used a few of the other guides as a framework. Logged in to the PTR and quickly found out that all the data on those sites is NOT COMPLETE! </p> <p>I will be pushing your site and checking in regularly as well as offering anything I discover. So far I have all the mats and then some.</p> <p>Thank you. </p> http://www.elsprofessions.com/forums/topic/a-1-300-inscription-guide/page/2#post-145 Mon, 06 Oct 2008 12:46:45 +0000 Argyndale 145@http://www.elsprofessions.com/forums/ <p>I've kept an eye on this site and forums and I thank you for all your efforts concerning Inscription. I have one question though: is it certain that leveling Inscription will only require herbs, the milling thereof + buyable trade goods, and not things like Essences, Primals and the like? </p> http://www.elsprofessions.com/forums/topic/windshields-inscription-guide#post-144 Mon, 06 Oct 2008 09:15:54 +0000 el 144@http://www.elsprofessions.com/forums/ <p>Interesting approach. We're both faced with the same "luck"/predictability/variability problem. The only guarantee is to assume 2 primary pigments from every milling, which naturally tends to require vastly more herbs!</p> <p>I assume you are using the Alabaster set into the 80s because these herbs tend to be cheaper - and this is the exception where the first skill block does not use 2 inks in all the final recipes, so it makes sense to continue using the cheaper herbs?</p> <p>As a side note: inks seem to always sell to vendor for more than the value of their raw pigments, so it should be worth making inks out of all the secondary pigments you gain - you have nothing to loose. </p> http://www.elsprofessions.com/forums/topic/windshields-inscription-guide#post-143 Mon, 06 Oct 2008 07:39:50 +0000 windshield 143@http://www.elsprofessions.com/forums/ <p>I've made an Inscription guide. It's based on my recent experience on the PTR. Hopefully it's a decent counterpart to El's guide. (It's very much in a different style.)</p> <p>You can find it <a href="http://epicbewts.googlepages.com/inscription.html"><strong>here</strong></a>.</p> <p>I would appreciate any feedback, corrections, disagreements, etc. </p> http://www.elsprofessions.com/forums/topic/a-1-300-inscription-guide/page/2#post-142 Sun, 05 Oct 2008 22:30:38 +0000 el 142@http://www.elsprofessions.com/forums/ <p>I've written up a <a href="http://www.elsprofessions.com/inscription/leveling.html">1-350 power-leveling guide</a>. It tries to adjust for known bugs and oddities, so differs slightly from the current beta/PTR build. It should give a reasonably accurate summary of the volume of herbs required when this goes live.</p> <p>However... if you read through it, you'll spot serious balance issues at 75-100 and 275-300, which I assume will be changed. 75-100 could yet become 75-125, with all other recipes moved up by 25 points (which also neatly solves the need to reach 375 without Northrend). And 275-300 is breaks all the patterns established up to that point, which does not feel right. So be particularly cautious about the herbs needed for those.</p> <p>I'd love some feedback on how the guide is laid out. Plus any factual corrections, or comments on optimisations I've made that do not make sense to you. </p> http://www.elsprofessions.com/forums/topic/a-1-300-inscription-guide/page/2#post-122 Wed, 01 Oct 2008 17:22:04 +0000 Felkan 122@http://www.elsprofessions.com/forums/ <p>Finding items isn't really the issue. It is figuring out what you need to make something. Say I find Glyph of the Chicken. It requires some paper and 2 Fowl Inks. Great. What do I need to make Fowl Ink? Scroll/search Fowl Ink. It requires Avian Pigment. Search for Avian Pigment, it requires me to mill Dragon Flowers. Run to bank and find some Dragon flowers and reverse the whole process to make the Glyph.</p> <p>Inscription has an extra step (Pigment--&gt;Inks) that makes it so clunky. With JC you just had uncut stones. There wasn't a middle step to go from uncut stones to a cut stone. And uncut stones come directly from prospecting.</p> <p>Maybe if we (I) just store Pigments in the bank along with small (4 or less flower) stacks of flowers, it won't be as bad. I could just grab swap out my Pigment bag as needed. </p> http://www.elsprofessions.com/forums/topic/a-1-300-inscription-guide/page/2#post-120 Wed, 01 Oct 2008 13:50:34 +0000 el 120@http://www.elsprofessions.com/forums/ <p>Amonia - Please send me an email (address in my profile) once you get thinking. I played around with a Javascript-based <a href="http://www.capsu.org/jumpgate/">mini-database/analysis tool</a> 7 years ago, before it was fashionable (and Ajax-style data transfer was supported by enough browsers), and would love to collaborate/feedback/host on something at some point!</p> <p>Felkan - I find specific things by searching for their name. But I'd love to have a way to browse in alphabetical order, or search by stat, or...</p> <p>The latest build is still messy after about 275 skill (green recipes after 295), but the skill-up process is fairly smooth until then. There clearly is still work being done.</p> <p>As noted in the site news, the pigments used in inks have changed. At first sight, that means more herbs! But if you are cunning, you can use the rare secondary pigments to reduce the number again. I've put together <a href="http://www.elsprofessions.com/inscription/raising_skill.html">an updated example</a> (the "better method").</p> <p>The numbers are crude. Keep in mind that the mathematically optimal balance between the recipes that use the secondary pigment, and recipes that do not, needs to consider risk (probability/chance): Milling is a variable process, so a small extra margin for error should be added. Overall, if everyone over-estimates slightly, anyone that gets really unlucky should be able to find the extra materials on the auction house. That logic works for the banking industry, so what could possibly go wrong...?</p> <p>My current estimate is about 10 stacks of herbs from each bracket - assuming the rest of the leveling curve follows the pattern below 200. But there are a few quirks at the moment, that push the figure up dramatically, simply to jump over a 5-point skill-gap. (For example, 255-260 requires 5 points of scroll-making, which immediately uses 5 times more materials than would be the case if a glyph was available.)</p> <p>It is also worth noting that more recipes "spill over" from one herb bracket to the next. For example, the basic Armor Vellum gives reliable skill-ups from 35 until over 80, so you can keep on using Moonglow Ink (Alabaster Pigment) at a stage when most recipes use Midnight Ink (Dusky Pigment). If there is a big difference in the pricing/ease of gathering of herbs between each bracket, it might make sense to keep on using the lower-level ink. </p> http://www.elsprofessions.com/forums/topic/a-1-300-inscription-guide/page/2#post-119 Wed, 01 Oct 2008 13:25:04 +0000 Felkan 119@http://www.elsprofessions.com/forums/ <p>Last night's build (9K something), changed leveling significantly. For one, you can reach 365. Plus there seems to be more orange/yellow choices between 300-355. And probably below 300, but I didn't check.</p> <p>One thing that has to be created is a new UI for inscription. It just sucks. Last night a shammy buddy wanted me to make him a glyph. It took a few minutes of scrolling up/down in that tiny UI window to figure out exactly what raw materials I needed to make the glyph.</p> <p>While you can link [Inscription] to another player, most are not going to be able to figure out (from that crappy ui) what raw materials they need to give you to make the glyph.</p> <p>Let's hope inscribers make friends with an addon developer soon. </p> http://www.elsprofessions.com/forums/topic/a-1-300-inscription-guide/page/2#post-117 Mon, 29 Sep 2008 15:43:29 +0000 Amonia 117@http://www.elsprofessions.com/forums/ <p><cite>el <a href="http://www.elsprofessions.com/forums/topic/a-1-300-inscription-guide/page/2#post-103" title="View original post.">wrote</a>:</cite></p> <blockquote><p>Skill-ups are still in a mess in the current build, with high reliance on green recipes.<br /> Amonia: The spreadsheet is very impressive. This is probably how skill-ups should be done. Some comments:<br /> 1. I'm a big fan of <em>complex</em> spreadsheets, but most players will just see numbers, and will continue to just see numbers until there are only 3 options and 1 result visible.<br /> 2. It should be web-based. WoW players are nervous about anything that runs macros, talks to the internet, and walks through data in their WoW folder! Plus not everyone has spreadsheet software available.<br /> 3. This one's a bit technical: Following that logic I started thinking about a Javascript-based web "page" (web-based, but transfers all the number crunching to the client's machine - server load quickly becomes an issue for a popular WoW site), possibly with Ajax-type requests for specific datasets. The weakest area is auction house price information, however this data is collected for all servers by others already (for a price). I presume Wowhead data is used via their XML output? If so, they may pull the plug on the feed if too much traffic is lost without gaining them any advertising revenue (from memory they've said in the past that nobody should rely on it).<br /> 4. Wowhead's data needs to be sanitised: For example, it picks up research: Level 75, with a 20 hour cooldown - not suited to most leveling strategies! Once professions are live, trainable recipes do not change frequently (whole years pass), so a human filtering is entirely viable. Other professions will also be restricted at higher-level by daily quest tokens, which are increasingly required to progress up to 450 (Inscription does not use tokens yet).<br /> 5. Alternatively, convert the whole thing into an in-game addon, and use data as it occurs in-game. I assume there is a reason why this is not as straight-forward as it sounds. Or possibly it is just such a huge programming/data management task that nobody is prepared to do it for free (and Blizzard offers no mechanism by which addon authors can make money from their efforts).<br /> I'd love to do something with this. Not just for Inscription - indeed Inscription is becoming very linear anyway, with the only real choice between herbs within each bracket. Unfortunately I would need to wait until WotLK is done: As you can probably imagine, researching and writing 2 WoW websites is quite time consuming at the moment!</p></blockquote> <p>Wow, that's a lot of work you're talking about ^^<br /> However I like the challenge and will think about the javascript version (maybe light version to start with). </p> http://www.elsprofessions.com/forums/topic/a-1-300-inscription-guide/page/2#post-115 Mon, 29 Sep 2008 13:18:35 +0000 Felkan 115@http://www.elsprofessions.com/forums/ <p><cite>el <a href="http://www.elsprofessions.com/forums/topic/a-1-300-inscription-guide/page/2#post-114" title="View original post.">wrote</a>:</cite></p> <blockquote><p>I could be wrong, but if Inscription goes live in its current form, a lot of players will get frustrated with in before they even reach Northrend!</blockquote> Very true. Even on the PTR in which I really didn't care what happened, I wanted to scream and pull my hair out. Let's hope something changes.... </p> http://www.elsprofessions.com/forums/topic/a-1-300-inscription-guide/page/2#post-114 Mon, 29 Sep 2008 10:54:47 +0000 el 114@http://www.elsprofessions.com/forums/ <p>Blizzard often state that they will not require pre-expansion content to be played to progress into subsequent expansions. I don't expect any recipes to be added to existing rep vendors, or any dungeon run or drop to be required to level Inscription.</p> <p>Overall, the early, mid, and late parts of the leveling curve are inconsistent with one another. Professions are generally more consistent throughout: The difficulty at higher levels is purely based on the rarity/expense/volume of higher level reagents used in recipes, not that all the recipes are suddenly green in the mid-stage. Reliance on green recipes as the "best option" just causes player frustration, because chance becomes the most important factor. No need to create that frustration around in the mid-skill levels, and that doesn't fit with the current "instant satisfaction" approach to profession training. (Remember the enchanting trainer in the back of Uldarman? Or the cooking artisan quest? Or Mithril? Now trainers are visible as soon as players get the expansion.)</p> <p>Blizzard's favoured design approach seems to be to experiment with a small part of the game, get that balance "right", and then apply that pattern to everything else. Inscription has seen a lot of tweaking at lower levels. A lot of recipe types first appeared as single items between skill 1 and 100, and have since been added all the way up the chain. I think for the last 2 months they've been playing with the lower levels, and anything that appears at higher level has been randomly allocated.</p> <p>I could be wrong, but if Inscription goes live in its current form, a lot of players will get frustrated with in before they even reach Northrend! </p> http://www.elsprofessions.com/forums/topic/a-1-300-inscription-guide/page/2#post-111 Mon, 29 Sep 2008 03:08:11 +0000 Felkan 111@http://www.elsprofessions.com/forums/ <p><cite>el <a href="http://www.elsprofessions.com/forums/topic/a-1-300-inscription-guide/page/2#post-103" title="View original post.">wrote</a>:</cite></p> <blockquote><p>Skill-ups are still in a mess in the current build, with high reliance on green recipes.</blockquote> Don't you think this is by design? Or maybe there will be outland rep based recipes? Or outland instance recipes to fill in the gaps?</p> <p>FWIW, I made to to 355, but the last 40-45 points was with green recipes. That consumed lots-o-mats. Maybe 30-40 stacks of Outland mats. Ouch! </p> http://www.elsprofessions.com/forums/topic/a-1-300-inscription-guide/page/2#post-105 Sun, 28 Sep 2008 21:07:48 +0000 Gummo 105@http://www.elsprofessions.com/forums/ <p>"testchar" on Alliance on the PTR is 352 inscription and has all recipes that are currently available. </p> http://www.elsprofessions.com/forums/topic/a-1-300-inscription-guide/page/2#post-103 Sun, 28 Sep 2008 08:56:42 +0000 el 103@http://www.elsprofessions.com/forums/ <p>Skill-ups are still in a mess in the current build, with high reliance on green recipes.</p> <p>Amonia: The spreadsheet is very impressive. This is probably how skill-ups should be done. Some comments:</p> <p>1. I'm a big fan of <em>complex</em> spreadsheets, but most players will just see numbers, and will continue to just see numbers until there are only 3 options and 1 result visible.</p> <p>2. It should be web-based. WoW players are nervous about anything that runs macros, talks to the internet, and walks through data in their WoW folder! Plus not everyone has spreadsheet software available.</p> <p>3. This one's a bit technical: Following that logic I started thinking about a Javascript-based web "page" (web-based, but transfers all the number crunching to the client's machine - server load quickly becomes an issue for a popular WoW site), possibly with Ajax-type requests for specific datasets. The weakest area is auction house price information, however this data is collected for all servers by others already (for a price). I presume Wowhead data is used via their XML output? If so, they may pull the plug on the feed if too much traffic is lost without gaining them any advertising revenue (from memory they've said in the past that nobody should rely on it).</p> <p>4. Wowhead's data needs to be sanitised: For example, it picks up research: Level 75, with a 20 hour cooldown - not suited to most leveling strategies! Once professions are live, trainable recipes do not change frequently (whole years pass), so a human filtering is entirely viable. Other professions will also be restricted at higher-level by daily quest tokens, which are increasingly required to progress up to 450 (Inscription does not use tokens yet).</p> <p>5. Alternatively, convert the whole thing into an in-game addon, and use data as it occurs in-game. I assume there is a reason why this is not as straight-forward as it sounds. Or possibly it is just such a huge programming/data management task that nobody is prepared to do it for free (and Blizzard offers no mechanism by which addon authors can make money from their efforts).</p> <p>I'd love to do something with this. Not just for Inscription - indeed Inscription is becoming very linear anyway, with the only real choice between herbs within each bracket. Unfortunately I would need to wait until WotLK is done: As you can probably imagine, researching and writing 2 WoW websites is quite time consuming at the moment! </p> http://www.elsprofessions.com/forums/topic/a-1-300-inscription-guide/page/2#post-102 Fri, 26 Sep 2008 20:03:04 +0000 Felkan 102@http://www.elsprofessions.com/forums/ <p>There is definately a long range (20-25 points) in which I could only make scrolls and/or vellums. </p>